Curse

Greedy Gus · Aug 15, 2009, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Hehe... dare I leave Shock at home? Prot Strike is godly, but then again so is KDlocking (expensive though it might be). Trying this for a while...

PRage
Rush
Bull's
Prot
Dismember
Ago
DChop
res sig

You wouldn't generally want agonizing and dchop on the same bar, especially one with dismember and a utility elite (just lacks +damage altogether).

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

wat?

At least from my limited obs perspective over the last 6+ months, the best consistent warrior micro and bonus for strongest bars was from valk, master, nihil (non-hammer), wolfy, kalzu? (PR meta, maybe wrong person), echoman (WE meta), and sometimes ego.

Bobby2 · Aug 15, 2009, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

You wouldn't generally want agonizing and dchop on the same bar, especially one with dismember and a utility elite (just lacks +damage altogether).

Considering it's Arenas and the build lacks Shock, I disagree. Plays out more like pressure because it lacks BBlow but without a real spike skill like Evis, I'm okay with that.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Aug 15, 2009, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

At least from my limited obs perspective over the last 6+ months, the best consistent warrior micro and bonus for strongest bars was from valk, master, nihil (non-hammer), wolfy, kalzu? (PR meta, maybe wrong person), echoman (WE meta), and sometimes ego.

If Nihil is playing serious he has by far the best micro of any warrior that's played competitively in the last 1.5-2 years. And overall is the best hammer warrior, in this timeframe, hands down.

Wolfy, Kalzu and Master all have excellent micro and are strong warriors in general but they're better on axe than on hammer imo (any retard can play current sword bars effectively).

Ego is a great warrior, but doesn't excell in micro as much as in target choice, and team tactics.

I don't know where you got the idea from that Echoman and Valk deserve anywhere near the same recognition as any of the others you mentioned though, Echoman has afaik not even played competitively (my definition of competitively = consistent top 16 finishes in mATs) ever and Valk wasn't even core warrior in uP until Benson stopped logging on afaik.

Now I'll admit I haven't been obsing a lot of warriors that closely lately due to boring builds and 90% of them playing Primal Rage, but neither Echoman nor Valk has stood out to me in the past.

And being good at Warrior's Endurance warrior isn't much of an achievement tbh...

kedde · Aug 15, 2009, 10:26 PM // 22:26

What really proves how good nihil is will be the fact that even after not playing for months and constantly taking breaks and playing in general less than a lot of others, he's still better.

Unlike most warrior players he's not specialized in one thing, but he's just good at most things in general.

As a bonus, he has the calmest and most fuzzy voice in guildwars.

I Angra I · Aug 16, 2009, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Not sure, although you wouldn't want four adren attack skills on the same bar. Maybe he had specific ideas in mind with the two increased activation speed skills. He was constantly churning out skills for rapid spikes and pressure, and changed evis to whirling at least for the matches I obsed a few days ago.

I would question that, they're really two different intentions. Shock is not simply an option that is better or worse than things on an absolute scale that you always want if your secondary is free. Shock is more playstyle defining or strategy-minded and could actually get in the way of a micro-intensive pressure bar/playstyle.

An unconditional kd is way better than almost anything else you can bring regardless of the playstyle you're going for.

Greedy Gus · Aug 17, 2009, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

If Nihil is playing serious he has by far the best micro of any warrior that's played competitively in the last 1.5-2 years. And overall is the best hammer warrior, in this timeframe, hands down.

Wolfy, Kalzu and Master all have excellent micro and are strong warriors in general but they're better on axe than on hammer imo (any retard can play current sword bars effectively).

Ego is a great warrior, but doesn't excell in micro as much as in target choice, and team tactics.

I don't know where you got the idea from that Echoman and Valk deserve anywhere near the same recognition as any of the others you mentioned though, Echoman has afaik not even played competitively (my definition of competitively = consistent top 16 finishes in mATs) ever and Valk wasn't even core warrior in uP until Benson stopped logging on afaik.

Now I'll admit I haven't been obsing a lot of warriors that closely lately due to boring builds and 90% of them playing Primal Rage, but neither Echoman nor Valk has stood out to me in the past.

And being good at Warrior's Endurance warrior isn't much of an achievement tbh...

My point on hammer was that it has a lower micro ceiling compared to axe, due to taking movement and stancing largely out of the equation. So the difference in production between most good warriors is rather small with hammer (would agree that nihil could be the best, but you really see his micro on axe).

On valk maybe I'm crazy, and their success may not show it, but every time I've seen him play a warrior this year (even before uP in some guild with no mas) he puts in the max micro effort that most people can't or are too lazy to keep up, and he runs strong bars.

For WE it was a joke bar, but echoman was at least the best I saw at getting out every skill on recharge on unprotted targets, hitting the most conditionals for prot strike & bulls, while having solid stancing micro. Granted I got tired of obsing any wars in that meta almost immediately.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Aug 17, 2009, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

My point on hammer was that it has a lower micro ceiling compared to axe, due to taking movement and stancing largely out of the equation. So the difference in production between most good warriors is rather small with hammer (would agree that nihil could be the best, but you really see his micro on axe).

This is true I suppose, a good example of this is when Jatt plays axe warrior.

Osiris_sam · Aug 17, 2009, 12:22 PM // 12:22

seeing as this thread has taking a rather unusual turn, i may as well ask the obv question for those less informed about warriors (i.e. me)

could you explain what you mean by micro (i have a very crude understanding, call it a rough idea)
thanks

IMMORTAlMITCH · Aug 17, 2009, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osiris_sam

could you explain what you mean by micro (i have a very crude understanding, call it a rough idea)
thanks

Basically micro means all the 'actions' done by the player in-game.

So quarterstepping, weapon swapping, etc. Basically doing whatever you can to maximise your damage in terms of in game actions, positioning can be seen as a form of micro too and to a certain extent so can timing your skills.

I'd be hesitant to include timing skills to be on time with other skills from other players (i.e. spiking) under micro though, I'm referring more to timing skills like Bull's Strike, Interrupts, KDs, etc.

A good warrior is constantly moving while attacking, positions himself well to have multiple targets in reach and does his best to avoid targets that are for one reason or another taking less damage (could be prots, other buffs or simply a high armor level). he will recognise casting and kiting patterns of individual players and adjust his usage of skills like Disrupting Chop and Bull's Strike accordingly.

A lot of the movement/quarterstepping/positioning has been made a lot easier by Primal Rage however, making it harder to notice the differences between someone with a good micro and someone with a mediocre/bad micro, by a 'less informed' player and in general making bad players seem less bad.(This concept is known as power creep where the focus moves from player skill to skills on the players bar).

Osiris_sam · Aug 17, 2009, 01:40 PM // 13:40

ok, thanks mitch. ive heard and understood all these concepts before, but never seen them refered to together.
obv, unfortunatly, nearly all of my warrior experience is from arenas, and ive only had the chance to gvg once or twice as a war.

I still prefer playing evis over primal, i have similar experience playing both, but from my understanding, playing a bar where something is easier, ultimatly makes learning that thing much harder (quarterstepping for example).

Silent Treason · Aug 17, 2009, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

If Nihil is playing serious he has by far the best micro of any warrior that's played competitively in the last 1.5-2 years. And overall is the best hammer warrior, in this timeframe, hands down.

No. That is all wrong.